Comments on: Place Names Can Break Our Hearts

By: David Carment

David Carment — Wed, 16 Oct 2013 08:32:53 +0000

I agree with Pauline regarding the early use of Freshwater but the change back to that name has resulted in only some local businesses and organisations also removing Harbord from their names. Whatever its origins, Harbord was in use for almost a century.

By: Chanelle Burman

Chanelle Burman — Mon, 14 Oct 2013 03:38:21 +0000

What a great post! I agree with Bruce that more attention needs to be given to place names. I was reminded of a recent debate about the naming of a new train station near Shellharbour (http://www.kiamaindependent.com.au/story/1529724/mps-cry-foul-over-station/) It seems that the politics of place names and the effects they have on dividing or uniting communities could be better understood publically.

By: Bruce Baskerville

Bruce Baskerville — Sun, 13 Oct 2013 22:27:21 +0000

Thanks Carol, I think you’ve just saved me from an error in a thesis chapter. I was looking for The Ponds where Edward Varndell was granted some land in 1792. After seeing your post, a quick look in a street directory shows Varndell Place in Dundas Valley – midway between Ryde and Parramatta! Not the most accurate cross check, and I’ll use some other sources. But it just shows (as I’ve learnt before) that the current location of toponyms cannot be relied upon for historical research. The mobility of some place names is interesting in its own right, but I think the (new) Ponds is probably more egregious than that.

By: Pauline Curby

Pauline Curby — Sun, 13 Oct 2013 10:48:09 +0000

This is a comment from a former northern rivers resident who still mourns the change made in 1974 whereby the north arm of the Richmond River became the Wilson River. Who was consulted about this? I think Bruce has hit the mark here but I take issue with Davids comment re Freshwater. This change was in fact restoring the original name of the suburb which had been changed in 1923 by the real estate lobby on (in Ian#s words) a dubious locality name for their own purposes. Freshwater SLSC kept the Freshie name alive by refusing to change the name of the club despite significant pressure from the local council.

By: Carol Liston

Carol Liston — Sun, 13 Oct 2013 09:25:13 +0000

In Western Sydney, the new suburb the Ponds near Rouse Hill now causes historical confusion with the earlier settlement of 1790s called the Ponds which was between Parramatta and Ryde. The new Ponds is presumably a shortened form for the nearby Second Ponds (a key land mark in the debates about the location of the battle of Vinegar Hill in 1804, thus adding further confusion for local debates on that issue).

Perhaps the Geographical Names Board needs stronger guidelines about historical place names. GNB was only created in the mid 1960s, but presumably its brief includes an accurate understanding of the origins of NSW place names.

By: phanswblogeditor

phanswblogeditor — Sun, 13 Oct 2013 02:49:03 +0000

And further afield, in Pretoria, the changing of street names has been the subject of legal action by an Afrikaner organisation, Afriforum.

By: Ian Willis

Ian Willis — Sun, 13 Oct 2013 02:20:38 +0000

It is not only the inner city where changing place names is contentious. The continual naming of new suburbs on Sydney’s rural-urban fringe raises a host of questions about history and heritage. Real estate developers often invent dubious locality names that have no connection to place.

By: David Carment

David Carment — Sun, 13 Oct 2013 02:04:36 +0000

Bruce raises some important issues that ought to be of concern to historians. Millers Point and Dawes Point are very old place names and there is a strong sense of community in both suburbs. Considerable caution is needed in altering their boundaries. Some other recent name changes are also questionable. The 2010 decision to detach Kurraba Point, an area I know well, from Neutral Bay was historically unsound and appears to have been mainly driven by the real estate industry. Following a ‘public consultation’ in which a small minority of residents participated, in 2008 the name of Harbord was altered to Freshwater, a decision that continues to cause much confusion. The name Harbord was in continuous official use from 1923.